Thank you for hosting that talk yesterday with Chuck Rocha. Hes so right about so much. The thing is we have a dilemma the republicans don’t. They march in lock step. They are essentially all of the same mind set. That’s why no one had a problem with the entire auditorium at their convention gleefully waving mass deportation now signs. Sadly, we see they meant it. The Democratic Party is much more diverse and even though that’s a strength our diversity of thought also leads us to places everyday Americans can’t always relate to. Justice for all is something we believe in but too much focus on it spawns these spoiler 3rd party candidates and doesn’t help us win elections. As much as I appreciate Bernie and AOC’s fervor I don’t think fight the oligarchy means much to the average person. We have to find ways to be more practical and relatable, which isn’t that easy for our big and diverse thinking party. A little more lockstep would probably be a good thing for us.
I see it as highly unlikely anyone who is not an American citizen would be involved in building our party with Hispanics. I know the Mexican flag upsets people and I wouldn’t want it flown on someone’s house either but in the CA situation it felt fine to me to be carried in a protest since it was primarily Mexican people being brutalized by ICE or whoever they really are. It was also controversial when the Latina singer Nezza decided to sing the national anthem in Spanish at the Dodger game while all this has been going on. She was roundly applauded after she sang but I’m sure right wing media had a field day with it. My attitude is we are a country of immigrants and there is no need for them to leave their language or love of the country of their birth at the door. They can still love and be Americans. People who are offended by that are mostly republicans who would have no interest in the Dems anyway.
The Mexican flag waving is mainly in CA. In that case it’s about solidarity and pride in their cultural roots. Because our society as a whole didn’t seem to pay enough attention to the demonization of migrants rhetoric of Trump’s it’s now apparent just how destructive it really was. It isn’t safe to have brown skin in this country and I imagine some do carry identification with them. Your point is well taken as far as the protests go, although it also has something to do with the have and have less divide that happens in places where wealthy and more educated people live. Yes Trump did manage to get the Hispanic vote in certain areas of the country, especially areas where people came from Latin and Central American dictatorships. Fake strong men running the show is natural to them and some look at themselves as this could never happen to me. Case in point the Cubans. Now Trump has banned their entry. So much for that false belief. In my area the vast majority of the undocumented and Hispanic citizens are Mexican with a much smaller community of El Salvadorans and other Latin Americans mixed in. Chuck Rocha mentioned yesterday that at least 60 percent of legal and undocumented Hispanics are of Mexican origin. They’re more conservative as a whole. Still, democrats can appeal to their concerns which is putting food on the table and practical everyday issues not fighting the oligarchy and everything that goes with it. We have to be more skillful at understanding them and reaching out to them. Having more Hispanics in positions of power in our party matters too which is one reason I find Chuck Rocha’s work so valuable. He’s Mexican and he understands this important demographic much better than most.
Absolutely nothing wrong with encouraging Hispanics to get involved in Democratic politics, but better make sure that they are documented. Otherwise, it creates a huge target for the other side.
And, cultural pride is fine, but try to rein in the "flags of our fathers", at least during staged party functions. Again, it's optics. Remember, perception is everything.
Regarding that lockstep, have you been following the dissension in the rabid MAGA wing, led by MTG, regarding the Iran bombing? It's not a complete renunciation of tRump, but when some of his most rabid supporters begin calling him a neocon....
It’s true there has been some dissent in MAGA over Iran but because they are all so in step with Trump their dissent never seems to last long before they fall back in line again. He’s like a Svengali which makes him hard to fight. After I wrote my previous comment I was thinking about my own city in the southwest. It’s full of very liberal, wealthy, white people. Bernie stickers were everywhere when he ran. At the same time there is also a huge number of undocumented and plenty of citizen Hispanics in my city too. At the rallies I don’t see many citizen Hispanics. The fact we don’t appear to have an effective way to involve the Hispanics is emblematic of the problem our party has. Maybe it’s just my city but I doubt it. We have to reach out to them much more and that’s true of elections too.
From various news photos, there seem to be a lot of Mexican flags at the rallies, but perhaps they are being waved by Anglos. I'm not surprised that there aren't a lot of "citizen Hispanics" at the rallies. Do you typically carry your passport or birth certificate with you? Why would someone who looks like one of "those" people (i.e., undocumented), and who was either born here or followed the legal procedure to become a citizen, place themselves in harm's way and attract ICE intimidation for line-jumpers?
As for elections, it seems that Rump got 46% of the Hispanic (Latino?) vote. That confirms that such citizens are tending to be more conservative. Don't automatically count on them to lockstep vote D in the future. Unless the candidate is supporting more than rainbows, unicorns, and open borders, they will vote for the individual supporting their work ethic and religious convictions (most Hispanics are Catholic).
Democrats are consistently pathetic. They are the biggest reason tRump in in the WH. Shame on them. They need all new leaders at the top. Sadly they will do nothing. They are terrific at doing nothing.
Rump is in the WH because 3 million MORE people voted for him than they did in 2020, and 6 million LESS voted for Harris than they did for Biden. That wasn't laziness, that was deliberate apathy. A real primary selecting a solid, consensus candidate might just have motivated at least 3.5 million of those non-voters.
Yeah and maybe if she wasn’t a black woman she would have gotten more votes as well. There are so many reasons we could do a deep dive. I think the off the cuff blaming democrats is lazy
No lazier than blaming race or gender for being a poor candidate. Perhaps had there been an open primary and she had run, she might have won the nomination and possibly gotten more votes simply because many people felt that she was being forced on them.
I’m not trying to have an argument with someone I ultimately agree with. I’m not trying to have a post mortem of the election. I want to move forward and do something about our democracy falling apart NOW
In other words, you have no response past the "Victim" complaint.
When you hold other people in contempt--or make a feeble effort to do so--you automatically lose hope of ever convincing them. A few more like you espousing the "Democratic cause," and 2026 will be a disaster, leading to a 2028 catastrophe.
Where are the Republicans, Jill Stein voters, Cornel West voters, RFK jr voters along with the other third party voters; where are the non voters( the made a choice not to vote, not the voters whose votes were suppressed)? Where?
Are they rigged the elections he admitted he rigged the elections
Thank you for hosting that talk yesterday with Chuck Rocha. Hes so right about so much. The thing is we have a dilemma the republicans don’t. They march in lock step. They are essentially all of the same mind set. That’s why no one had a problem with the entire auditorium at their convention gleefully waving mass deportation now signs. Sadly, we see they meant it. The Democratic Party is much more diverse and even though that’s a strength our diversity of thought also leads us to places everyday Americans can’t always relate to. Justice for all is something we believe in but too much focus on it spawns these spoiler 3rd party candidates and doesn’t help us win elections. As much as I appreciate Bernie and AOC’s fervor I don’t think fight the oligarchy means much to the average person. We have to find ways to be more practical and relatable, which isn’t that easy for our big and diverse thinking party. A little more lockstep would probably be a good thing for us.
I see it as highly unlikely anyone who is not an American citizen would be involved in building our party with Hispanics. I know the Mexican flag upsets people and I wouldn’t want it flown on someone’s house either but in the CA situation it felt fine to me to be carried in a protest since it was primarily Mexican people being brutalized by ICE or whoever they really are. It was also controversial when the Latina singer Nezza decided to sing the national anthem in Spanish at the Dodger game while all this has been going on. She was roundly applauded after she sang but I’m sure right wing media had a field day with it. My attitude is we are a country of immigrants and there is no need for them to leave their language or love of the country of their birth at the door. They can still love and be Americans. People who are offended by that are mostly republicans who would have no interest in the Dems anyway.
The Mexican flag waving is mainly in CA. In that case it’s about solidarity and pride in their cultural roots. Because our society as a whole didn’t seem to pay enough attention to the demonization of migrants rhetoric of Trump’s it’s now apparent just how destructive it really was. It isn’t safe to have brown skin in this country and I imagine some do carry identification with them. Your point is well taken as far as the protests go, although it also has something to do with the have and have less divide that happens in places where wealthy and more educated people live. Yes Trump did manage to get the Hispanic vote in certain areas of the country, especially areas where people came from Latin and Central American dictatorships. Fake strong men running the show is natural to them and some look at themselves as this could never happen to me. Case in point the Cubans. Now Trump has banned their entry. So much for that false belief. In my area the vast majority of the undocumented and Hispanic citizens are Mexican with a much smaller community of El Salvadorans and other Latin Americans mixed in. Chuck Rocha mentioned yesterday that at least 60 percent of legal and undocumented Hispanics are of Mexican origin. They’re more conservative as a whole. Still, democrats can appeal to their concerns which is putting food on the table and practical everyday issues not fighting the oligarchy and everything that goes with it. We have to be more skillful at understanding them and reaching out to them. Having more Hispanics in positions of power in our party matters too which is one reason I find Chuck Rocha’s work so valuable. He’s Mexican and he understands this important demographic much better than most.
Absolutely nothing wrong with encouraging Hispanics to get involved in Democratic politics, but better make sure that they are documented. Otherwise, it creates a huge target for the other side.
And, cultural pride is fine, but try to rein in the "flags of our fathers", at least during staged party functions. Again, it's optics. Remember, perception is everything.
Regarding that lockstep, have you been following the dissension in the rabid MAGA wing, led by MTG, regarding the Iran bombing? It's not a complete renunciation of tRump, but when some of his most rabid supporters begin calling him a neocon....
It’s true there has been some dissent in MAGA over Iran but because they are all so in step with Trump their dissent never seems to last long before they fall back in line again. He’s like a Svengali which makes him hard to fight. After I wrote my previous comment I was thinking about my own city in the southwest. It’s full of very liberal, wealthy, white people. Bernie stickers were everywhere when he ran. At the same time there is also a huge number of undocumented and plenty of citizen Hispanics in my city too. At the rallies I don’t see many citizen Hispanics. The fact we don’t appear to have an effective way to involve the Hispanics is emblematic of the problem our party has. Maybe it’s just my city but I doubt it. We have to reach out to them much more and that’s true of elections too.
From various news photos, there seem to be a lot of Mexican flags at the rallies, but perhaps they are being waved by Anglos. I'm not surprised that there aren't a lot of "citizen Hispanics" at the rallies. Do you typically carry your passport or birth certificate with you? Why would someone who looks like one of "those" people (i.e., undocumented), and who was either born here or followed the legal procedure to become a citizen, place themselves in harm's way and attract ICE intimidation for line-jumpers?
As for elections, it seems that Rump got 46% of the Hispanic (Latino?) vote. That confirms that such citizens are tending to be more conservative. Don't automatically count on them to lockstep vote D in the future. Unless the candidate is supporting more than rainbows, unicorns, and open borders, they will vote for the individual supporting their work ethic and religious convictions (most Hispanics are Catholic).
Where are the republicans seems a better question since they actually have the power to stop all this shit!
Democrats are consistently pathetic. They are the biggest reason tRump in in the WH. Shame on them. They need all new leaders at the top. Sadly they will do nothing. They are terrific at doing nothing.
Trump is in the White House because of the people who voted for him and the assholes who didn’t get off the couch to vote
Assholes is right. Now the world's biggest asshole is in the WH.
Rump is in the WH because 3 million MORE people voted for him than they did in 2020, and 6 million LESS voted for Harris than they did for Biden. That wasn't laziness, that was deliberate apathy. A real primary selecting a solid, consensus candidate might just have motivated at least 3.5 million of those non-voters.
Yeah and maybe if she wasn’t a black woman she would have gotten more votes as well. There are so many reasons we could do a deep dive. I think the off the cuff blaming democrats is lazy
No lazier than blaming race or gender for being a poor candidate. Perhaps had there been an open primary and she had run, she might have won the nomination and possibly gotten more votes simply because many people felt that she was being forced on them.
I’m not trying to have an argument with someone I ultimately agree with. I’m not trying to have a post mortem of the election. I want to move forward and do something about our democracy falling apart NOW
Whatever dude
In other words, you have no response past the "Victim" complaint.
When you hold other people in contempt--or make a feeble effort to do so--you automatically lose hope of ever convincing them. A few more like you espousing the "Democratic cause," and 2026 will be a disaster, leading to a 2028 catastrophe.
Where are the Republicans, Jill Stein voters, Cornel West voters, RFK jr voters along with the other third party voters; where are the non voters( the made a choice not to vote, not the voters whose votes were suppressed)? Where?